The following is an experiment I ran with ChatGPT. I asked it: “Could you help me do an interview style blog post? You can ask me questions and I write my response. When it is all done you can put it into a single document. I would like to have a conversation about the American Church, patriotism, and politics.”
This is the result.
Paul’s Ponderings Interview | July 2025
In this special edition of Paul’s Ponderings, we sat down with pastor and blogger Paul Steele to discuss a topic that’s as timely as it is complicated: how the American Church navigates patriotism, politics, and allegiance to Jesus. What follows is a candid and thoughtful conversation about discipleship, division, and what it really means to belong to God’s Kingdom.
Q: When you look at the American Church today, what gives you hope? And what concerns you the most?
Paul:
What gives me hope is a renewed emphasis on discipleship and a clearer call to allegiance to King Jesus. After decades of “church growth” focused primarily on Sunday morning worship services, more and more people are talking about the importance of actual disciples as the true metric of church health.
Along with that shift are scholars like N.T. Wright, Scot McKnight, and Matthew Bates, who help reframe the Gospel as the story of Jesus and how He became King. Therefore, the only appropriate response to that reality is allegiance to the King.
My concern, when it comes to the American Church, is politics—and this is both a right and a left issue. Conservative Christians and Progressive Christians alike want to use politics and the U.S. government to do the work of the Kingdom. This has caused deep divisions. Especially on the conservative side, there’s been an unhealthy merging of Republican politics with the Church itself.
Q: You mentioned allegiance to King Jesus. How does that allegiance shape the way Christians should relate to their nation—especially when patriotic values seem to conflict with Kingdom values?
Paul:
This has been something I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about. In the United States, it’s been possible for a long time to hold dual allegiance—to the country and to Jesus. This is rooted in the belief that the U.S. is a Christian nation. While there’s no doubt that Christian values influenced the founders, that influence is often overstated.
Because of that, patriotism can feel like an extension of our faith. That’s why it’s so important to emphasize that our first allegiance is to King Jesus and His Kingdom. With that as our foundation, we can live out Jeremiah’s call to the exiles—to seek the good of the community. As citizens of Heaven, we work for the good of our communities, and since we have a voice through voting and activism, we should use it.
But we also need to remain humble. We might have strong preferences for how government should work, but we don’t always know the unintended consequences of policies. So we should be grateful for the freedoms we enjoy and seek to influence society—remembering that God’s Kingdom is ultimately about His people demonstrating His character, not about enforcing human laws.
Q: In your experience as a pastor, how have you seen politics impact the life and unity of the church—both positively and negatively?
Paul:
To be honest, I don’t have a lot to say about politics having a positive impact on church unity. From my experience, it’s mostly been negative. And I have to admit—I’ve contributed to that. Between 2014 and 2017, I went through what I call my “obnoxious libertarian” phase. I used Facebook (and even the pulpit) to challenge conservative political assumptions. In 2017, a church member called me out on it, and that really made me reflect on how my own political ideology was shaping how I interpreted the Bible—just like I had criticized others for doing.
We’ve had people leave the church from both sides—left-leaning folks who felt out of place among outspoken conservatives, and others who left during COVID because they felt we didn’t open fast enough. Politics can unify, but only temporarily—and usually only if everyone thinks the same way. The downside is that it creates an environment where anyone who doesn’t share those values doesn’t feel like they belong.
It’s also become harder to preach on biblical themes like justice, the role of women, or loving enemies without being accused of “going woke.” Too many Christians let politics shape how they read the Bible, instead of letting the Bible shape their politics.
Q: How do you personally navigate the tension between being politically aware and engaged, while resisting the pull to place your hope in politics?
Paul:
It starts by remembering that I’m first and foremost a citizen of the Kingdom of Heaven. One of the disciplines that helps me is to daily pledge my allegiance to King Jesus and declare that I am a loyal citizen of His Kingdom. Without that intentional reminder, it’s easy to get pulled into the political drama of the day.
Once I’ve grounded myself in that identity, I can think about my responsibility as a Kingdom representative. That includes prayer—1 Timothy 2:1–4 teaches us to pray for leaders so we can live peaceful, quiet lives. It also includes being a good steward of our freedom through voting and activism.
But I always try to hold my preferences with humility. I’m not wise enough to see all the consequences of the policies I support. And above all, I want to love my neighbor well. The Kingdom isn’t going to come through elections and laws—it’s going to come through love and living out God’s character in the world.
Q: What does it look like for you, as a pastor, to disciple people who are deeply shaped by political ideologies? How do you lead them toward deeper allegiance to Jesus without alienating them?
Paul:
That’s the million-dollar question. A lot of pastors are trying to navigate these dangerous waters of politics and faith. And as I’ve said, this is not something I’ve always handled well.
More than anything, I think we need to create an atmosphere where we let the Bible speak. I often remind people: “The Bible is written for us, but not to us.” We need to read Scripture through the lens of the original audience, not through modern political categories. Once we understand the original message, we can apply it to our context today.
The goal is to avoid unnecessary labels like “woke” or “bigot” and instead ask: “What would the original hearers have understood this to mean?”
I also want people to see that from a Kingdom perspective, our greatest tools for political impact are prayer and disciple-making. Changing hearts will change communities. So my job is to teach the Bible clearly and trust the Holy Spirit to convict people where needed. Whenever we challenge someone’s political views, we risk defensiveness. So we lead with Scripture, with love, and with trust in God’s timing.
Q: If you could offer one message to the American Church in this cultural and political moment, what would it be?
Paul:
It would simply be: “Pledge your allegiance to King Jesus.”
In Matthew 6:24, Jesus teaches that we cannot serve two masters. It’s hard to help people see that politics and patriotism can compete with allegiance to Jesus—but that’s often what’s happening. So I want to encourage the Church to obey the truth of Scripture and place our faith, trust, and loyalty in Jesus above all else.
Final Thoughts:
This conversation reminds us that while politics has a place, it should never take the throne. True transformation doesn’t come through elections or policies—it comes through prayer, discipleship, humility, and radical allegiance to King Jesus.
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